There are about two million Muslims living in Britain, 48% of them live in London. Their numbers are growing fast, both here and across the European continent. Experts have called London the hub of radical Islam's efforts in the West. Some of them see the effort to convert England to Islam as an important strategy for taking over Europe.
Smith said in an interview, "The influence of Islam is growing dramatically. They're doing a lot more than we are-than anybody else is-to make sure Islam grows. So, people are hearing, listening, and being influenced, they are converting right, left and center. The Muslims have had more converts in the last 8 months than they had in the previous two years. Even since September 11th-when you'd have thought they would be getting all kinds of bad publicity."
Ironically, in the free speech area of Speaker's Corner, radical Muslims march by, shouting, "Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, we support Taliban!"
Religious scholars estimate that 15% of Muslims in Britain are radical. Many of them want to see Britain turned into an Islamic regime, governed by Sharia (a harsh form of Islamic law).
As yet, most of Britain's two million Muslims have nothing to do with these radical elements, but Smith says Christians can't afford to ignore the views of that 15% minority.
In our interview, Smith said, "The majority of people living in the UK want to be moderate, that's why they're here, and they're not the ones attacking Christianity nor the West. They want to assimilate. It's the radicals we have to fear, the ones we have to contend with. But Christian missions have spent all their time with the Muslims in the middle, very few missions are dealing with the radicals who are hijacking our jets, blowing themselves up and us with them, who want to overturn our societies and eradicate the freedoms we have. But we're going to have to contend with the radicals, whether we like it or not."
Back on his short ladder, Smith continued his talk to the Muslim crowd. "We're going to change subjects now, we've got the Muslims in the front already angry-they're going to get even angrier, we're going to talk about the future of Islam for Britain."
Some find Jay Smith's method of sharing the Christian faith controversial. Some Christians criticize him for being too combative." But Smith said he contends for the faith.
"If you're going to read a scripture," he tells the crowd, "do it in the language of the people who are reading it. And still you will find that the Bible is superior to anything Islam can bring up. Anything in the Koran." A bystander retorts, "That's your claim, isn't it?" Smith replied, "It's the claim we Christians have been making for 1200 years with your people."
And Smith draws the crowd closer. "Come on, don't just yell from back there, come forward, up front here. I want to talk to each one of you because I'm going to look at your scriptures and I'm going to see from where your authority comes."
Further along in the interview, Smith said, "Now many people would interpret that as being combative or aggressive, I call it passion. I am passionate for what I believe. I am forthright with what I believe. I need to be so, because the people I am dealing with are very passionate, too."
Smith commented to me, "What you've seen here today is very symptomatic of what Paul did in the First Century. It's not symptomatic of what we're doing in the 21st Century; and I think that's unfortunate. I think a lot of Christians assume when you contact somebody of another faith-or get into a discussion-do so 'meekly and mildly'. They think Jesus was always meek and mild, without realizing, that idea of Jesus is very European. A very European Jesus, who always talks calmly, meekly, always has a smile on his face. Read the New Testament, look what Jesus did in the temple, look at what He did with the Pharisees."
Smith says his approach will not work in Muslim-dominated countries. "Such bold 'free speech'," Smith said, "would provoke severe persecution of Christians in many Muslim countries."
Smith challenged the crowd of Muslims around him, "We want to know, do you want Islam to take over Britain? The Muslim crowd yelled, "Yes, yes!"
Smith said, "See that's what the Muslims want."
In my interview, I asked, "Do you hate Muslims?"
Smith said, "No, not at all, I think they're great. I love their passion, I am jealous of it. I love the passion they have, I wish we had the same. Therefore, I want to make sure we get Christians to have equal passion."
When he is not standing on his small stepladder, waving the Koran in one hand and the Bible in the other, urging Muslims to leave their faith, Jay Smith is training others on how to take on the challenge of Islam.
This Sunday was Beth Grove's first time to stand atop the ladder. Beth Grove is a Christian debater-witness trained by Smith.
Grove said, "Today was very intense. A lot of the very fundamental Muslims, who are taught in the Mosques how to attack Christianity, were there. I just had a conversation, just now, with a guy who knows the Bible better than I know the Bible. He was throwing every verse at me. Even as I tried to give verses to answer him, he would just use it against me. So it was quite a difficult conversation."
Grove has debated Muslims at Speaker's Corner for the past two years. She and others in the team say they get a lot of criticism from other Christians for generating "much heat but little" light among these Muslims.
But Grove defended their debates, "When you work with Muslims, especially fundamentalist Muslims, you don't see fruit. It's very easy to work in a ministry where you've seen a lot of fruit. For example, I work with Kurdish people and they really respond to the Gospel. But fundamental Muslims, you don't really see that fruit. It can be quite hard, week in and week out, to be reaching Muslims, but right now you don't see it. Yet you know, perhaps 20 years down the line, there will be fruit, but right now you don't see it."
But lack of fruit hasn't stopped Smith and his fellow Christians from defining what they believe and defending it in public. I spoke to another of his debater-witnesses.
Hanna Jackson is a seemingly very young Christian Debater. I asked her, "How old are you?" "20," she replied.
I asked, "Are you scared to be out there [debating radical Muslims]?"
Jackson said, "I was in the beginning. Yeah. When I was younger I was surrounded, one time, by 25 Muslims. I was frightened for my life, but the Lord has, over time, given me the strength and boldness to do this."
Grove said happily, "Since I've come to Speaker's Corner I've learned my Bible quicker than any other time, I went to Bible College and graduated. Then I came to Speaker's Corner and realized I knew hardly anything. So the Muslims are wonderful because they make me learn my Bible."
I asked JoyceTseng another debater-witness, who is an International Missionary, "What did you learn the most out of this?"
She said, "I discovered the passion and joy of evangelism."
I asked Jay Smith "In all the years you've come to Speaker's Corner, have you ever been threatened?"
Smith replied, "Many times. Sometimes, If they're just real loud threats, I don't take them very seriously. Sometimes it comes from the crowd saying, 'We're going to kill you, Mr. Smith, we are going to follow you home'. But if they come and whisper in my ear, I take it a little bit more seriously."
The risks are real. Smith was assaulted in1995, when he tried to challenge a Muslim speaker on the origins of the Koran.
Smith said, "I was knocked unconscious. It was in the papers the next day. And, from that time I've been getting up on the ladder because the police came to me and asked me to, because they were scared for my health."
The growth of Islamic fundamentalist groups has forced police to boost their numbers at Speaker's Corner. Some Muslim groups have used violence to silence their opponents.
I asked Smith, "How spiritually prepared do you have to be for this?"
Smith replied, "It's very important; half the battle is in the heavenlies. I have a good 10 to 20 churches in America who start to pray for me at 10 a.m. on the East Coast, which is 3 p.m. here. … For my protection, to make sure that I am Christ-like in the real sense, in the holistic sense, and to make sure that what is said is going to make an impact on those who hear it."
And then Jay was back with the Muslims, reading Psalm 23 to a group that surrounded him. "…The Lord is my shepherd, I shall lack nothing, He makes me lie down in green pastures, He leads me beside quiet waters..."
Smith says Muslims are hearing the Gospel; they are more curious than ever before. He says 9-11 has brought new opportunities to share his faith and to stand firm against those who attack Christianity.
In our interview, he said, "Give me a fundamentalist any day, I know I can redirect their passion to the Truth! What that passion-once it's 'brought through' into faith in Jesus-can you imagine what they can do or say to the rest of Islam!
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