P/ I see, you did originally call your book ‘Animal farm – a fairy story’ didn’t you, why did you call it this?
G/ Yes I do believe the American’s changed the name – maybe because ‘a fairy story’ was no longer needed I am not sure, but I did originally call my book that. It was more to give a hint, than anything else. You don’t see many books stating what type of book they are in the title do you? I thought the reader’s might hopefully see it, pick it up and think – ‘oh, that’s odd’, and catch the hint of sarcasm that there’s something about this book that’s non-fairy tale like.
P/ The disguise, I see. Why was it so important to put your book under disguise in the first place?
G/ Well, as the book is a satire, there must be disguise to some extent. There must be some examples of fictitious characters interpretated to represent real life characters, which is half the fun I believe. This of course, gives the author the freedom to play around with the characters with what they do and say because the settings, characters and speech is all different to what really happened. With all these factors different, there can be no direct links from the real situation to the satirical situation. For example if Starlin was to say ‘we shall keep all taxes and funds for ourselves’, Napolean would say ‘we shall keep all apples and milk for ourselves’. Obviously this is why people thoroughly enjoy satires, individually making the links between the two settings and the effect can be humorous, appreciative, and very rewarding. This is why the disguise was important to me as an author.
P/ You, also Jonathan have your novel under disguise. In fact, so much so that your satire is structured as a leaflet. As you begin to read ‘A Modest Proposal’ you don’t realise that is not for real, but a mock of real leaflets, until you begin to read further down, when the writing begins to turn somewhat surprising, for example: ‘It is a melancholy Object to those, who walk through this great Town, or travel in the Country, when they see the Streets, the Roads, and Cabin-doors crowded with Beggars….’ and later on ‘I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year Old a most delicious, nourishing and wholesome Food….’. Why did you choose to structure your novel as a leaflet, and why start off the satire as you did, (shall I say calmly) when you were going to adjust to such shocking ideas later on?
J/ Disguise was very important to me as an author also, and I didn’t want people to look at my novel immediately and see it was a satire, as Mr Orwell with ‘Animal farm’. The main reason for this was the impact I desired. By making the pamphlet seem at first normal, the sudden change would shock the reader because they didn’t expect it at all. I wanted to draw attention to the audience’s ignorance, and shock them into realising how bad the situation had got. I hoped they would then take an interest. This was very important to me because not only was this satire written for enjoyment, as ‘Animal farm’ but I wanted to use it to gather a group of people who shared my opinion (I knew I wasn’t the only one) and possibly make a difference. It greatly annoyed me that the majority of people (apart from the ones dying of starvation) refused to accept how atrocious the situation had become. The Landlords and the rich of course knew it, but didn’t want it to change, as they benefited from the situation. Yes, it was mocking the pamphlets and leaflets of the time, you see, they annoyed me greatly, all this talk and no action, empty promises and pretentious problem solving lies. And if it wasn’t empty promises it was unfair, stupid decisions that wouldn’t help us in any way. The way I have written it – in a politicians opinion- makes the leaflet even more frightening, because a man in such a high respectful position representing so many peoples opinions makes the reader think, ‘if this man thinks this is right, so can a lot of people’, but it is indeed so wrong.
P/ As well as being structured as a leaflet, you have numbered each point you have raised. Why have you done this?
J/ Well, this was just so that the points could be referred back to quickly. I thought this was necessary in case this novel was ever used for evidence of some sort about the famine, and also it was a common technique used in pamphlets and leaflets at the time. It looks somewhat boring, and was effective for the disguise and unexpected impact.
P/ As in the quotations given before, ‘Streets, the Roads, and Cabin-doors’. You have used italics for a lot of words and put capital letters where they are not usually expected to go. Why have you done this Jonathan?
J/ There are certain words that hit me as being very important in the novel, and to exaggerate these words and bring attention to them I put them into italics, and often began them with a capital letters. This helped the shocking language, and also showed the sarcasm. Italics are very sarcastic and they show that this certain word portrays a deeper meaning and stood out. Also, italics should almost be croaked rather than spoken, they indicate the way I believe the text should be read.
P/ Going back to this idea of shocking the audience in the language used, did you mean to shock the audience in ‘Animal Farm’ in any way George?
G/ Yes. Although my novel seems to be more interested in the politics of the revolution, (as it is) in certain parts I did want to reflect how horrifying the other side of the revolution was. For example the confessions of the animals (in Chapter 7) when they admitted to being in contact with Snowball, and they were slaughtered in a most unnatural manner by Napoelean’s dogs – they had ‘their throats ripped out’, which I knew would appear quite shocking for a leader to do, and make the reader think and reflect back to how Starlin treated such crimes.
P/ In ‘A Modest Proposal’ an example of shocking language was the line ‘I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the Knife, as we do roasting Pigs.’ Why did you choose to use this line?
J/ Well, as you’ve just pointed out, this line is very shocking. To compare a young child in any connection to something as low on the food chain as a pig is wrong, especially when the politician is recommending to cook the children in the same way- it’s malice. The two ideas – pig and a human child contrast well I think, they are both helpless yet one matters so much compared as to the other.
P/ Were you two (especially you Jonathan) not worried in any way how people would react to these novels? The times you have written about were such tender and sensitive times to talk about that people may have thought it was wrong to do so.
J/ I am a very religious man, and at the time I was Bishop of Dublin. I earned a lot of respect from the people around me. I don’t think many people would have expected this kind of literature from a man in my position, so I was worried at first about how people would react. But I did believe that many would understand what I was trying to say, and I did want to create an impact with my novel anyway. I suppose I was relying on people’s intelligence to see the satirical purpose of the novel, so it was a bit risky.
G/ Well, I did write my novel a long time after the revolution whereas Jonathan wrote his during the famine, so I picked a good time for my satire – the time when everyone wants to know what really happened. But with satire’s you are openly expressing your opinion and there’s always a risk someone is not going to share it and therefore not like it, but I’d say the majority of people shared my opinion anyhow. I also was relying on people’s intelligence to spot the satirical writing, for the success of my book.
P/ Who would you both say influenced you to write your novels?
J/ A writer called Dryden wrote the poem ‘Mackfleknoe’, I was greatly influenced by him, the poem was a classic, but I would say most of my inspiration came from what I could see was happening around me and how it greatly annoyed me day by day.
G/ I was also mainly inspired by what I had seen in the revolution, I was influenced by book before I had written it, my travels and the people I had met. I was actually also greatly inspired by Mr Swift, I kept telling myself I would love to write a satire about the revolution and so I finally did.
P/ In both satires symbolism is used, most especially in ‘Animal farm’.
REFER 2 LANGUAGE USED
INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERS AND SYMBOLISM PAGE 3
THEMES – EQUALITY PAGE 10 PROPOGANDA PAGE 9 – look at in more detail
EFFECT ON AUDIENCE - if not already dun
MODERN RELEVANCE
SATIRE?
